[lively-kernel] Looking to pare down LK

[David Mason]

Lively Kernel is way cool!

Unfortunately, it doesn't address my needs directly.

I am developing a web app and I want 2 things:

1) a nice IDE that lets me develop Javascript code, test it out, and
where I can hide it when I need the whole screen for the app. LK does
(most) of this.

2) the deliverable needs to load very quickly, so I need to be able to
deploy something where (at least most of LK) is out of the picture.
The app was previously written with Amber Smalltalk so depends on a
very Smalltalk-like class hierarchy, so I would want most of what is
in the base "classes" in core/lively/lang but not much more (maybe
net, definitely not morphic).

Is this doable? Is there a template for it, or a how-to?

(Actually the app is currently in Amber Smalltalk, but I'm considering
moving to more-or-less pure javascript. I would write tools to
automatically translate translate the Smalltalk to Javascript/LK.
Hmm, I wonder how doable it would be to add a Smalltalk parser/editor
to edit the .st files directly. It would obviously have a different
object/class model, but could use Smalltalk syntax. Any opinion on
how difficult that would be?)

Thanks ../Dave

[Robert Krahn]

Hi, Dave --

For one part you can remote develop web pages in an iFrame, like I outlined
it with the slider page in this video:

Another option is to connect to the JS runtime of existing webpages via
Lively2Lively:
http://lively-web.org/users/robertkrahn/lively-2-webpage.html

Using Lively as an IDE for other environments is also possible since we
provide a shell integration for starting and controlling OS processes and
various language hookups, e.g. to evaluate Python, R or Clojure code.
However, this might not be relevant for your project.

In terms of library support: I prepared a small compat library that allows
to load Lively scripts and modules on any webpage.
An example is running here:
http://lively-web.org/users/robertkrahn/just-the-core/example.html

Basically, just
http://lively-web.org/users/robertkrahn/just-the-core/pre-lively.js (the
compat script) is needed and then you can add whatever Lively modules and
scripts you need. The the HTML source code of the example.html file.

Side note: We currently extracting the Lively independent JS language
additions into https://github.com/LivelyKernel/js-lib.

Best,
Robert

[Robert Krahn]

I put the last part of my previous answer into a small tutorial:
http://lively-web.org/users/robertkrahn/2014-09-10_just-the-core.html

Best,
Robert

Post by David Mason
Lively Kernel is way cool!
Unfortunately, it doesn't address my needs directly.
1) a nice IDE that lets me develop Javascript code, test it out, and
where I can hide it when I need the whole screen for the app. LK does
(most) of this.
2) the deliverable needs to load very quickly, so I need to be able to
deploy something where (at least most of LK) is out of the picture.
The app was previously written with Amber Smalltalk so depends on a
very Smalltalk-like class hierarchy, so I would want most of what is
in the base "classes" in core/lively/lang but not much more (maybe
net, definitely not morphic).
Is this doable? Is there a template for it, or a how-to?
(Actually the app is currently in Amber Smalltalk, but I'm considering
moving to more-or-less pure javascript. I would write tools to
automatically translate translate the Smalltalk to Javascript/LK.
Hmm, I wonder how doable it would be to add a Smalltalk parser/editor
to edit the .st files directly. It would obviously have a different
object/class model, but could use Smalltalk syntax. Any opinion on
how difficult that would be?)
Thanks ../Dave
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[David Mason]

Post by Robert Krahn
http://lively-web.org/users/robertkrahn/2014-09-10_just-the-core.html

Unfortunately this exhibits exactly the issue I am concerned about. I
happen to be at a conference with a somewhat overloaded WiFi. The
initial page load happens in less than a second, but then the loading
overlay starts and hasn't completed 5 minutes later... (I've tried
loading 3 times after 5 minutes each time, but to no avail).

../Dave

[Bert Freudenberg]

Post by David Mason

Post by Robert Krahn
http://lively-web.org/users/robertkrahn/2014-09-10_just-the-core.html

Unfortunately this exhibits exactly the issue I am concerned about.

Because that's a real Lively page. The pared-down example is here:

http://lively-web.org/users/robertkrahn/just-the-core/example.html

- Bert -