[lively-kernel] Personal Lively Wiki?

[Sean P. DeNigris]

There are so many cool projects that I'm not sure where to start!

If I want to create my own personal local wiki, what is the best system to
start with? I've read about Lively Wiki, but it seems like it is no longer
active/available - is that right? Then there's the Webwerkstatt wiki - is it
possible to run that locally (and could it be used as a personal wiki)? Is
there any wiki functionality built into vanilla LK? Thanks.



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Cheers,
Sean
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[Sean P. DeNigris]

Sean P. DeNigris wrote
> Is there any wiki functionality built into vanilla LK?

Okay, I have my local copy of LK up and running. I see that if I make a link
to Whatever, lively tries to open a local world at Whatever.html. But if the
world doesn't exist, I get an error instead of "Creating new worlds can be
done by clicking on a link to a not existing world" described in the Lively
Wiki paper.

Also, is there any way to control how the link is opened? Opening a new
window for each wiki link feels a bit heavy.

Lastly (for the moment ;)), editing existing hyperlinks seems very awkward.
Mouseups anywhere on the link open it, regardless of which buttons /
modifier keys are pressed. If the link was in a text by itself, the only way
I found was to click down in the text and drag, creating a partial
selection, until outside the text before releasing the mouse. If there is
other text next to the link, I had to click to an adjoining word and then
arrow key over. Am I missing something easy here?

Thanks!



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Sean
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[Marko Röder]

> I see that if I make a link to Whatever, lively tries to open a local world at
> Whatever.html. But if the world doesn't exist, I get an error instead of
> "Creating new worlds can be done by clicking on a link to a not existing
> world" described in the Lively Wiki paper.

This paper is quite old and the Lively Kernel has changed a lot since then. This functionality is not built in anymore.

> Opening a new window for each wiki link feels a bit heavy.

I would not say so if you put opening a new (wiki) page on a level with booting another Smalltalk image (and that is what is like - even though both "images"/worlds share the same kernel code).


- Marko

[Marko Röder]

> If I want to create my own personal local wiki, what is the best system to
> start with?

You should use the GitHub-based Lively Kernel to get a local installation: https://github.com/LivelyKernel/LivelyKernel
On GitHub you will also find installation instructions.

> Then there's the Webwerkstatt wiki - is it possible to run that locally (and could it be used as a personal wiki)?

It is possible but at this point we would not advice to do so. The WebWerkstatt is _A_ special installation of the system that has a lot of content in it. If you want to start working with your own LK, you should start with a plain/clean system (see above).
Additionally the WebWerkstatt is not based on the GitHub system and both systems differ in some points (like Parts) even though they share a common codebase.

> Is there any wiki functionality built into vanilla LK?

Yes, any LK system always has wiki functionality if set up correctly.

> Okay, I have my local copy of LK up and running.

From what I read in the bug reports, you might be running a copy of WebWerkstatt?! Please consider switching to the GitHub system.


- Marko

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Marko Röder wrote
> You should use the GitHub-based Lively Kernel to get a local installation:

On http://lively-kernel.org, there is "To install Lively Kernel on your
system locally please see the development section", which links to the
installer that I used. If github is the way to install, this should probably
be changed…

Also, is it possible/easy to port Lively Wiki features into the current
system? Particularly important for wikis would be to auto-create
non-existent named worlds on first entry, and version control (IIRC LW used
svn, right)? Is the LW code publicly available?



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Sean
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[Lincke, Jens]

Hi, Sean -

normally wikis do this with support from the server side. But you can emulate that by not using URLs as links but code that is executed when the text is clicked. The Formatter can generate those links, have a look there to see how this works. To see how a new world can be programmatically created look how the "new" button in documentation/index.xhtml works.
The index page also shows you how to access previous versions in svn. But in lively core this works a bit differently, but the general idea should be the same.

Best, Jens

> Am 12.02.2014 um 18:19 schrieb "Sean P. DeNigris" <***@clipperadams.com>:
>
> Particularly important for wikis would be to auto-create
> non-existent named worlds on first entry, a

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Marko Röder wrote
> You should use the GitHub-based Lively Kernel to get a local installation:
> https://github.com/LivelyKernel/LivelyKernel
> On GitHub you will also find installation instructions.

While following the instructions (on OS X 10.8.5), I got:
$ npm start
<snip>
[2014-02-12 13:00:39.942] [INFO] console - Server with pid 18091 is now
running at http://localhost:9001
[2014-02-12 13:00:39.942] [INFO] console - Serving files from
/Users/sean/Downloads/LivelyKernel/LivelyKernel

events.js:72
throw er; // Unhandled 'error' event
^
Error: listen EADDRINUSE
at errnoException (net.js:901:11)
at Server._listen2 (net.js:1039:14)
at listen (net.js:1061:10)
at Server.listen (net.js:1135:5)
at module.exports
(/Users/sean/Downloads/LivelyKernel/LivelyKernel/node_modules/life_star/life_star.js:184:10)
at startServer
(/Users/sean/Downloads/LivelyKernel/LivelyKernel/bin/lk-server.js:165:25)
at fn
(/Users/sean/Downloads/LivelyKernel/LivelyKernel/node_modules/async/lib/async.js:582:34)
at Object._onImmediate
(/Users/sean/Downloads/LivelyKernel/LivelyKernel/node_modules/async/lib/async.js:498:34)
at processImmediate [as _immediateCallback] (timers.js:330:15)

npm ERR! ***@2.2.0 start: `$npm_node_execpath bin/lk-server.js`
npm ERR! Exit status 8
npm ERR!
npm ERR! Failed at the ***@2.2.0 start script.
npm ERR! This is most likely a problem with the livelykernel package,
npm ERR! not with npm itself.
npm ERR! Tell the author that this fails on your system:
npm ERR! $npm_node_execpath bin/lk-server.js
npm ERR! You can get their info via:
npm ERR! npm owner ls livelykernel
npm ERR! There is likely additional logging output above.
npm ERR! System Darwin 12.5.0
npm ERR! command "node" "/usr/local/bin/npm" "start"
npm ERR! cwd /Users/sean/Downloads/LivelyKernel/LivelyKernel
npm ERR! node -v v0.10.25
npm ERR! npm -v 1.3.24
npm ERR! code ELIFECYCLE
npm ERR!
npm ERR! Additional logging details can be found in:
npm ERR! /Users/sean/Downloads/LivelyKernel/LivelyKernel/npm-debug.log
npm ERR! not ok code 0





-----
Cheers,
Sean
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[Robert Krahn]

Hi, Sean --

The error you got was because you also have a server running on port 9001.
You can check with

lsof -i tcp:9001

and kill it with

kill -9 `lsof -i :9001 -t`

The Lively core github installation comes with version control that does
not require SVN and all other wiki features.

Best,

Robert





On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 10:06 AM, Sean P. DeNigris <***@clipperadams.com>wrote:

> Marko Röder wrote
> > You should use the GitHub-based Lively Kernel to get a local
> installation:
> > https://github.com/LivelyKernel/LivelyKernel
> > On GitHub you will also find installation instructions.
>
> While following the instructions (on OS X 10.8.5), I got:
> $ npm start
> <snip>
> [2014-02-12 13:00:39.942] [INFO] console - Server with pid 18091 is now
> running at http://localhost:9001
> [2014-02-12 13:00:39.942] [INFO] console - Serving files from
> /Users/sean/Downloads/LivelyKernel/LivelyKernel
>
> events.js:72
> throw er; // Unhandled 'error' event
> ^
> Error: listen EADDRINUSE
> at errnoException (net.js:901:11)
> at Server._listen2 (net.js:1039:14)
> at listen (net.js:1061:10)
> at Server.listen (net.js:1135:5)
> at module.exports
>
> (/Users/sean/Downloads/LivelyKernel/LivelyKernel/node_modules/life_star/life_star.js:184:10)
> at startServer
> (/Users/sean/Downloads/LivelyKernel/LivelyKernel/bin/lk-server.js:165:25)
> at fn
>
> (/Users/sean/Downloads/LivelyKernel/LivelyKernel/node_modules/async/lib/async.js:582:34)
> at Object._onImmediate
>
> (/Users/sean/Downloads/LivelyKernel/LivelyKernel/node_modules/async/lib/async.js:498:34)
> at processImmediate [as _immediateCallback] (timers.js:330:15)
>
> npm ERR! ***@2.2.0 start: `$npm_node_execpath bin/lk-server.js`
> npm ERR! Exit status 8
> npm ERR!
> npm ERR! Failed at the ***@2.2.0 start script.
> npm ERR! This is most likely a problem with the livelykernel package,
> npm ERR! not with npm itself.
> npm ERR! Tell the author that this fails on your system:
> npm ERR! $npm_node_execpath bin/lk-server.js
> npm ERR! You can get their info via:
> npm ERR! npm owner ls livelykernel
> npm ERR! There is likely additional logging output above.
> npm ERR! System Darwin 12.5.0
> npm ERR! command "node" "/usr/local/bin/npm" "start"
> npm ERR! cwd /Users/sean/Downloads/LivelyKernel/LivelyKernel
> npm ERR! node -v v0.10.25
> npm ERR! npm -v 1.3.24
> npm ERR! code ELIFECYCLE
> npm ERR!
> npm ERR! Additional logging details can be found in:
> npm ERR! /Users/sean/Downloads/LivelyKernel/LivelyKernel/npm-debug.log
> npm ERR! not ok code 0
>
>
>
>
>
> -----
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://forum.world.st/Personal-Lively-Wiki-tp4742381p4743068.html
> Sent from the Lively Kernel mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
> lively-kernel mailing list
> lively-***@hpi.uni-potsdam.de
> http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel
>

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Robert Krahn-4 wrote
> The error you got was because you also have a server running on port 9001.

Ha ha, yes… the other LK server was still running!


Robert Krahn-4 wrote
> The Lively core github installation comes with version control that does
> not require SVN and all other wiki features.

Ah, okay. I see the Wiki tab on the top right where I can view previous
versions. What do you mean by "all other wiki features"? I see that I can
link to another world via AbcXyz.html. Are there other features?



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Sean
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[Robert Krahn]

Well, the original
idea<http://lively-kernel.org/publications/media/KrahnIngallsHirschfeldLinckePalacz_2009_LivelyWikiADevelopmentEnvironmentForCreatingAndSharingActiveWebContent_AcmDL.pdf>behind
Lively Wiki "just" gave you the ability to visit web pages (worlds),
modify their state and behavior, and then save them (maybe under a
different name to add new content) and link between them. Basically self
contained "Web objects".

We added the PartsBin later but this is now also seen as a "wiki feature".

The recent version of Lively also has a messaging
system<http://lively-web.org/users/robertkrahn/2013-08-17_Lively2Lively.html>("Lively2Lively")
that can be used to directly communicate between worlds
and exchange objects. We will extend the system in the future to provide
more "multi-user awareness" and collaboration that will support working in
the wiki.

Best,
Robert





On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 1:59 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <***@clipperadams.com>wrote:

> Robert Krahn-4 wrote
> > The error you got was because you also have a server running on port
> 9001.
>
> Ha ha, yes... the other LK server was still running!
>
>
> Robert Krahn-4 wrote
> > The Lively core github installation comes with version control that does
> > not require SVN and all other wiki features.
>
> Ah, okay. I see the Wiki tab on the top right where I can view previous
> versions. What do you mean by "all other wiki features"? I see that I can
> link to another world via AbcXyz.html. Are there other features?
>
>
>
> -----
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://forum.world.st/Personal-Lively-Wiki-tp4742381p4743994.html
> Sent from the Lively Kernel mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
> lively-kernel mailing list
> lively-***@hpi.uni-potsdam.de
> http://lists.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/listinfo/lively-kernel
>

[Sean P. DeNigris]

The recent version of Lively also has a messaging
system ("Lively2Lively") that can be used to directly communicate between
worlds
and exchange objects

Very cool! I'll check it out...



-----
Cheers,
Sean
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